Primary and secondary radio streams?

Here we can discuss radio stations which we are listening to.
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Jazzfan
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Joined: 06 Mar 2019, 20:31

Primary and secondary radio streams?

Post by Jazzfan » 11 Oct 2021, 03:20

I installed RS on a fresh machine from a zip file i created a year ago. The station database was old so I wasn't surprised when a station URL wouldn't connect. I found the correct stream online and in updating my favorites with the URL I noticed this old database had the working stream listed second after the one that wouldn't connect anymore. So what is the uses of multiple URLS in station details if they can't be switched too?

Did my old brain miss something or did I forget something? I have since received the update so everything is good now. I just wondered why more then one in station details?

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Lapsang
Posts: 126
Joined: 21 Sep 2014, 12:59
Location: South East of the Netherlands, in between Belgium and Germany

Re: Primary and secondary radio streams?

Post by Lapsang » 11 Oct 2021, 11:42

Last week I experienced exactly the same: second stream working but no switch to that one.

When I create or change a radio station I always use one stream.

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Fonzy
Posts: 566
Joined: 21 Oct 2013, 22:43
Location: Belgium

Re: Primary and secondary radio streams?

Post by Fonzy » 11 Oct 2021, 15:24

The original goal for multiple streams is, to put the fastest connections first, then the slower bitrates, so that if someone with slow connection (isp dependant, phone line dependant,...) who cannot follow the decoding of fast bitrates, the the radio tries automatic the next stream and so on. Of course with lower bitrates, so lower quality.
If the radio does not switch to next stream, can mean the first one is on line but silent, otherwise the software is not doing what it is meanth to do

You can always manually rightclick on the station in the list-window an select sources, then choose the second, third, etc if there are present more sources.
For most cases, only the first source is always used, and therefore it has no sense to fill all 6 positions with sources.... it is in my oplnion more a contest for submitting the most number of sources, or to get the most changes in the database, (what is a sports on his own, aside of listening to music or recording songs for creating a CD or DVD that can be used in a car or at home, with the most wanted songs for you)

eMzw7gJ2NjEdmoNkiR9B
Posts: 82
Joined: 20 Nov 2016, 04:34

Re: Primary and secondary radio streams?

Post by eMzw7gJ2NjEdmoNkiR9B » 13 Oct 2021, 22:13

I agree with most of what you said, Fonzy, but it is a complicated topic.

For example, MP3 streams don't use much compression and require a higher bandwidth than AAC streams to deliver the same sound quality, so higher bit rate does not mean better sound.

Another example is HLS streams that change the bittate to adopt to the channel bandwidth between the server and the listener. They can be either the fastest of slowest connection compared to MP3 and AAC streams that are fixed or constant bit rates.

It is also useful to have alternate servers in the stream list, or a link to a program on the server that selects the best server available at that time in an attempt to do load balancing.

It's complicated. ;)

eMzw7gJ2NjEdmoNkiR9B
Posts: 82
Joined: 20 Nov 2016, 04:34

Re: Primary and secondary radio streams?

Post by eMzw7gJ2NjEdmoNkiR9B » 14 Oct 2021, 19:06

Forgot to mention- Jazzfan documents why is is important to document more than one stream: sometimes one will stop working, but others will not.

Jazzfan
Posts: 57
Joined: 06 Mar 2019, 20:31

Re: Primary and secondary radio streams?

Post by Jazzfan » 15 Oct 2021, 18:32

Thank you for the explanations everyone! Never having to consider alternate streams before I expected the program switched automatically. I see now it upon the listener to change to it.

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Fonzy
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Joined: 21 Oct 2013, 22:43
Location: Belgium

Re: Primary and secondary radio streams?

Post by Fonzy » 30 Dec 2021, 02:32

about http and https streams: here it is important the radio switches to the first working stream, even if it is the 4th or 5th.
I read today a remark " the radio stops searching if first stream fails" . This in relation to put the http type fisrt, because if https is first and old systems fail to connect, they should go to second stream source ... ! Maybe this is an exception for https stream not connecting, and does not occur for http streams , where the first does not connect for other reason
I did test on my XP machine:
Well, if first is https and second is http the radio just stops trying... with version 2.2.1046 (last version)
- either it is since last version (bug not earlier discovered), or it has been a long time so.
To find this out, I will install a very old version of RS on my XP machine.
- I give answers as soon as I did the testings. Meanwhile I see that Q.... is very bussy with changing stations , so that the http stream always is on the first source, but if it is a new bug (meaning on old versions the software did search all sources for connection, than we have a major problem with the 1046 release ( the HLS/m3u8 version)
To test this, I will create a dummy station (duplicate of working one ) with a few http sources on which I put errors in , then the OK stream. Also test first with old version if https first and http second, if it searches till http stream to connect..

replay on this tests later in this posting

------------------------------
tested with ver 1044 '(for older versions , I have to load archive DVD's , and take some more time to search for))

Bad news, even with http streams only , the program stops after first " no connection", and waits forever !
so the same with https stream in first source.
In other words: ONLY THE FIRST source will be tried to connect, and if fail, program just waits till user tries manually other sources
I try this also on "inLightRadio" program, on which I am sure, this feature did work ( Altough here theHLS streams cannot decode, not because there is no decoder module, but because the program does not recognise HLS streams(HLS came out after developper of inLightRadio quitted) , and so does not switch to the hls-module)
Keep you informed further. ....
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Test with " inLightRadio" = PERFECT, if source not connects, the program goes to next source ( and indicates it " no connection, try next source"), till it finds a working stream, and only stops after end of available sources.
This program is only a help, if not HLS streams are needed, and also, no licenses can be bought anymore, so it keeps "free user" versions, meaning, not recording from start of songs if record button pushed too late (in my case: work still on old XP machine as pro, but on the Win10 notebook, cannot be licensed, since service provider for licensing stopped to check and validate it)

I only can test "screamer radio" now , the only existing , (besides VLC), capable of playing the rsd-file after conversion, and do not know if it can decode HLS ( did not use it last few years)
IF VLC could use the (modified) rsd list, then it would be almost perfect to play ( not for recording features, or am I wrong ?)
----------------------------------- end of this posting ----------- waiting to check on very old versions of RS, before year 2000

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Fonzy
Posts: 566
Joined: 21 Oct 2013, 22:43
Location: Belgium

Testing sources in Radio Sure

Post by Fonzy » 30 Dec 2021, 09:32

For new PC's using Windows 10
Radio Sure player , also does NOT GO TO NEXT source , if source 1 fails !!!, it has nothing to do with the operating system !!
in other words: only source 1 is used automatic. If fails, radio stops !, and you have to select manually an other source (if exists)
---------------------------------
Testing oldest (I could get) versions of radiosure:
tested old versions of RS , from 2010 (I have no older archives), same as current last version; just stops on connection fails
Tested a version 2.0.688, Where no PRO exists (and so not recording from start of songs, = tested), an where the stations is a TXT file : stations2.txt( tab separated for fields and Hrt for records, so very simple to edit in notepad or notepad++). and the current stations-xx-xx-xx-rsd just can be renamed to stations2.txt Version is from 2009
I inserted a working stream as second source in a station ,not working on source 1, and empty next sources (total = 9 tabs)
Result: Test srce1= fail and stop. - Manually select srce2=play
In other words , auto retry next source does not exist since version 2.0.x
so probably , radiosure never did go to next source on no connection , altough in my memory, the first versions I remeber working the same as in inlightradio . Whatever the past...nobody is available now , nor capable for fixing bugs that are in radiosure now.
*** SInce no user can license anymore, I can not imagine what the goal is for The Bestware team to keep the websites and this forum on line ?!?!??............;*** so it is senseless to search further for earlier versions

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Fonzy
Posts: 566
Joined: 21 Oct 2013, 22:43
Location: Belgium

Re: Primary and secondary radio streams?

Post by Fonzy » 03 Jan 2022, 20:04

More testing on radiosure

What happens with empty sources, with sources containing only an "-", with sources containing an "-" before a valid stream?

Results:
empty =just skipped
only an "-" = just skipped
so sources do not have to be on each next line in the sources list in the station on website or in rsd file. There can be empty lines between without harm
an "-" before a stream= fail connection !
so empty sources or sources with - are just omitted in the shown list in the radioplayer (when rightclick on a station)
https streams without the https do not connect ( are shown in the sources list on rightclick)
http streams without the http do not connect, even if stream-url only a IP number and port ( are shown in the rightclick list)

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